Sunday, August 01, 2010

Time Magazine Obituary for Multiculturalism


Kevin said...

The Taliban is a vicious, evil organization of misogynistic barbarians.

That said what would you have us do? Shall we simply scorched earth the place? Murder 1 in 10 just to be sure?

We cannot impose civilization on barbarians unless you simply murder so many they have no choice but to comply. That leads us to what I find to be genocide. Are we now OK with that?

My suggestion is to allow all women and children in that country free passage to America. Let the Taliban get on without women. Then we only have to wait them out.

I'm not being facetious about this suggestion, but if what you wish us to do is genocide, this would be preferrable.

Gil Bailie said...

What kind of silly talk is that, Kevin. The overdue death of multiculturalism means simply that the myth -- unsupported by any evidence -- that all cultures are culturally, socially, and morally equal is finished. What in the world does that have to do with killing the hapless people who happen to inhabit a culture in need rescue?

That is precisely the problem: the violation of multiculturalism's doctrine is immediately conflated with xenophobia and murderous intent. Please.

Kevin said...

Glad to year from you.

Perhaps I was not clear and I'll try again.

We agree that multiculturalism, as you have expressed it here, is foolishness. To assume all cultures are equally good is ridiculous. We don't disagree on that one. Though we may disagree as to how we might act to confront those cultures and the nations which have them.

I should have asked you to clarify what you thought should be done before I went into all of that. I withdraw my comments after the "That said what would you have us do?" Should have stopped there and not assumed "Keep doing what we are doing" would be your response. I questioned an answer I did not take the time to let you provide. Sorry about that.

Now for a more careful set of questions.

What would you have us do?

What is your idea of rescue?

How would you have us do it?

Is making Af-Pak into a new culture feasible and worth the cost?

Ad Astra Per Aspera,

Mark Gordon said...

There is a fundamental tension in these posts of yours, Gil. On the one hand, you demonstrate the essential depravity of our own culture, with its deep attachment to abortion and pornography (although you never mention war); and yet at the same time you imply that if only Muslims will become more like us, they will finally be civilized. But why is it the mission of the United State to "fix" Afghan culture? And what standing do we have to even try?

As someone whose son has just this week returned alive and intact from the latest American imperial campaign to "make the world safe for democracy," my suggestion is that those who favor an extension of this project offer up themselves, their sons or their grandsons as IED fodder for the effort.

Kevin said...

That was well said. I'm glad to hear your son came home safe and sound. Let us soon put an end to these ridiculous wars.
Ad Astra Per Aspera,

ignatius said...

Gil, do you really think multiculturalism is dead, or will die any time soon?

I hope you're right, but I'm not so optimistic.

Mark, are you being fair by using a phrase of Woodrow Wilson (make the world safe for democracy)in describing the current wars?

I think you already suspect Gil's response to your challenge to him, but I'll only speak for myself. I do not wish for Muslims to remain Muslims or become secularists. I'd be delighted if they became Christians. That is mainly for the salvation of their souls, but there is a further benefit in that people in a Christian society have a better chance at freeing themselves from a dysfunctional government.

I'm glad your son came back safely. My son is seriously considering enlisting in the Marines. I and others have tried to dissuade him from it and we have made the risks clear to him, but in the end it's his call.

One final question, Mark. Do you really believe we have the right to offer up our sons and grandsons for anything? Think that one over again.